This is a message is one that needs to be heard. Jesus truly was anti-religion. His actions were so radical that if repeated today they would still be seen as extreme by Christian. Jesus was rejected by the religious and the Pharisees because his ideas would not fit in with their vast theological knowledge and interpretations. The same thing happens today with modern Christian.

It seems as though Christians actions are on the tail end of reform and change, while Jesus was on the front end. The Bible has been used to defend slavery, segregation, second class citizenship of women, and, in modern times, homophobia, yet all of these things run counter to the message of the Gospels. Christians should have been leading change in all these areas, but they were so caught up in technicalities of Biblical interpretations and morality. It conflicts with the Gospel and that is all that matters.

The central message of the Gospels is about love, inclusion, and justice. Jesus always embraced the outcast. Christians today are so focused on judging people’s sins, but it is not up to us to judge who sins. That is up to God.

My Story:
I am still in high school. I love Jesus, and I am a sincere Christian. Yet, I have been the victim of religious persecution. I have some theological differences with my parents that have driven them so far as to threaten to kick me out of the house. Somehow they cannot seem me as someone who is passionate about Christ. I am just someone who is misinformed and on a destructive path to them.

The function of the church should be that of the Gospels; everything else is less important. In reality, nothing else even matters. Who cares if I believe in justification by faith, predestination, creationism, evolution, or that God loves homosexuals. I am pursuing Christ.

The Gospel should be a message that unites Christians in an effort to evoke change, and I am hopeful that is what happens with this sermon, yet I am skeptical. My family has attended The Church at Battle Creek for five years and my parents represent the average attendee. It is just as religious as any other church I have been to.

I agree with you about religion in that the scribes and Pharisees were an example of religion, however, if you study out those scriptures, you find that religion is NOT a path to truth. What the scribes and Pharisees were preaching were a message leading people to hell. So, if a church is teaching and preaching the true message of the gospel of Jesus Christ, then I don’t think you have a ‘religion’ by definition. So, actually religions are those teaching a false gospel (although I get what you are trying to say).

I dislike the idea that the church should ‘appeal’ to the unsaved through any other aspect then a life lived right for the Lord. People who ask for the hope within you should be the only ‘appeal’ unless it’s freedom from sin & hell which also makes perfectly good sense!!!

The primary purpose of the church (meeting) is for encouragement of the saints, reading of the Word, and praising the Lord. It is not a failure of God’s people to meet, it is a failure of God’s people truly being prepared for going out & reaching people OUTSIDE of the building.

I actually think this problem has 2 reasons.

1. The Church has tried to ‘appeal’ by lowering God’s standards and not preaching sin and hell. This is why it might appear to people to be a social club – because it has become one – maybe even of people who are there not actually saved. I never hear messages preached about Hell anymore and even sin.

Spurgeon said:
“I do not believe that any man can preach the gospel who does not preach the Law.” Then he warns, “Lower the Law and you dim the light by which man perceives his guilt; this is a very serious loss to the sinner rather than a gain; for it lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion. I say you have deprived the gospel of its ablest auxiliary [its most powerful weapon] when you have set aside the Law. You have taken away from it the schoolmaster that is to bring men to Christ . . . They will never accept grace till they tremble before a just and holy Law. Therefore the Law serves a most necessary purpose, and it must not be removed from its place.”

“The Law cuts into the core of the evil, it reveals the seat of the malady, and informs us that the leprosy lies deep within.”

“They must be slain by the law before they can be made alive by the gospel.”

In fact, once the law brings the knowledge of sin, the mouth is stopped. The debate on religion ENDS because all have become guilty before God. (Romans 3:19) My husband experienced this conversion through the law. He was an atheist who believed in everything BUT God and has a myriad of excuses why Jesus wasn’t the ‘WAY’. Once the law revealed his sin, he knew he was going to HELL. There was no debate on religion, church, the bible or anything else – he knew Jesus Christ was the WAY, TRUTH AND LIFE! The law revealed his sinfulness and his need for a savior.

Maybe this is what is missing from church today!

2. The Church has not prepared Christians to go out and preach to the people. The student becomes like his teacher. People need help in knowing how to talk to others. Honestly, the Jehovah’s Witness religion does this – why don’t the people with the Truth of the Lord Jesus Christ do it. Even companies who do marketing and sales teach people how to talk to people. Remember, these people are SHEEP!

Plus, when you add the fact that people are not truly convicted of their own sinfulness, as Spurgeon said, you ‘lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion’. So the urgency of the message isn’t going out because people do not truly believe the depravity of their OWN sin.

I do want to add that many churches (like ours) do go out and door knock weekly and have an addictions program, Reformer’s Unanimous (RU), which do reach out to people in the community. I have seen and heard amazing testimonies of generations of lives changed through door knocking and know people whose lived have been changed through RU. So, there are churches and people reaching out.

The scorners and scoffers will always be there regardless of how hard the Christian tries to minister to them. We need to remember that the work of salvation is done by God.

Saying something as adversarial as Jesus HATES religion is an open invitation to hostility and yet I see no hostile comments. This surprises me.

I was baptized as a baby which means nothing to me but I guess it made my parents feel good, We went to church maybe once or twice a year, and there was very little dscussion about God and religion in our home. As an adult, I fould myself seeking out a church community for my children because I did not want them to feel religion illiterate as I did and sometimes still do. I took my children to several places and never really found a church home but I did attempt to teach them what little I knew about God & Jesus & The Bible.

Fast forward several years to a point where I ended up with a very broken and damaged spirit. My soul needed healing and I was fortunate to find a church home to help me sooth my wounds. For many years I attended that church and eventually was baptized there. For the record, I believe baptism is a personal choice, not something to be done to children as a matter of routine. You may dedicate your child to God if you wish, but baptism should be a conscious decision.

I currently do not attend church regularly. I sometimes attend with friends or family and sometimes I go when my spirit needs refreshing but I am satisfied with my relationship with God as it stands at the moment. I use my time and talents to help others, not for personal gain but I have to admit that it does my heart good when I look into the eyes of those needing help and I see hope.

I don’t think Jesus hates religion. I think church is there for those who need it. A wise pastor once said to me that people usually show up in church because they either have something to celebrate or they are hurting and need something concrete to lean against. Sometimes they stay for awhile, sometimes they get what they need and pass on by, and sometimes they go in and out like I do. In the end, isn’t it what we do with our lives outside of the church that really matters?

I believe all things happen for a reason so when I stumbled upon this website today and felt the need to comment, I believe I’m here because this is where God wants me to be. What I believe is important is to open your heart and listen, really listen and you will know where God wants you to be.

Live your lives with God as your guide. Maybe those who condemn people who don’t go to church 3 times a week or who throw God into every conversation like gang punks using their (offensive) own words are there for a reason. Maybe we should listen to them. Maybe instead of trying to push our agenda on others we should just sit back and enjoy the scenery once in awhile. Admittedly, I don’t have the answers and don’t have the religious training to quote from the Bible. I just strongly dislike the word, “HATE” and so there you go.

I have always been a believer of Christ, but just got back in church because I feel it is the place I go to regain my strength each week. I’m now taking action to help others. I work with someone who is a studier, a judgemental person of which they think they are better. Going to church like a robot and instead of being involved in activities this person takes whatever in food and such home instead of helping others she wants to take the help from others. She is not compassionate nor caring and everything is about her. I see this person as a religionoid. Makes me glad to think Battlecreek is helping me to help others and that’s what we are led to do.

I will start by saying that I am a Christian who does not currently go to church. I have gone to various churches on and off throughout my life (I’m 35). I can honestly say that church has always seemed somewhat of an obligation to me, when I would rather just stay in bed. I know, that sounds horrible. I do love the Lord. I pray daily, if not constantly sometimes. I try to study the bible, although I have a really hard time understanding much of it. I can read it over and over and it just doesn’t sink in. I find more information reading Christian books. I mainly just talk to Jesus daily, and try to talk to other people about Him.

Okay, I got off the subject of church. My husband and I did attend a church pretty regularly a few years ago. I do like the main pastor there- he definately has a gift. I enjoy his sermons and most times really connected with the Lord there. I did not, however, connect with anyone else. To me, it seemed like high school. I felt myself feeling uncomfortable, wondering who was watching me or whatever. It just feels “clicky”, if you know what I mean. We have visited other churches, and I pretty much feel the same way. I am not blaming anyone else, as this is obviously my problem, but I don’t feel the way I would think I should feel when at church. I would much rather watch a sermon on the internet, or read a book. I do like to be with other Christians.

I guess my point, is that a lot of people still think you have to go to church to be a Christian. I don’t feel this way. I believe in spirituality and my own personal relationship with Jesus. I can’t help but think of churches as big money-makers, or status symbols. My husband has a huge issue with the pressure to tithe 10% of our income- he says that will never happen. We do sponsor K-love every month, and have for years now, we also donate monthly to various charities that we believe in. I would give the shirt off my back if someone needed it.

Having said all of that, I do feel guilt because we don’t go to church. I hate it when someone says “where do you go to church?” I feel like less of a Christian when that happens. Maybe we just haven’t found the right church yet. The sad thing is that I dread trying to find it.

I don’t hate. Hate means to give in to the darkest emotion possible. I fight against hating. What I do find about religion, though, is the potential to disappoint in the one place where you should feel most secure. The roles that members of the congregation play often lead them to feel ownership in the church, not a sense of belonging or family or unity, but ownership. Ownership is dangerous. Ownership means picking and choosing who can do what, and while there always must be rules, the church remains God’s house. Some of my greatest disappointments have been in religious environments. I know now that those circumstances were not the hand of God. I realize that we must have those who serve as intermediaries, but the first time we think we are exercising our personal choice, and not God’s will, we are making a huge mistake.

Organized religion is the mask of the sinful. If growing up in a Christian home meant getting screamed at on the way to church Sunday morning and then the masks were distributed and put into place for our tedious, yet daunting journey to the worship center. Mom and Dad America act as nothing is wrong in their little glass house, but heaven forbid if a rock were thrown at the glass house to expose the true, hurting and HUMAN side of these people. To grow spiritually in Christ, we must relinquish to our sins and sinful nature. The church is supposed to be a place for the hurting, the tired, and the weak and yes, even us sinners.
Shh.. Not too loud.
My life is never going to be that mask. I need the fellowship of my family, I am not perfect and I do not have all the answers or possibly any of the answers except Christ and that is what Sunday should all be about. After all, He sees who we really are and what we are hiding. The church members can be fooled, but God cannot be fooled.

I agree with much of your stance, but with all due respect I find your approach a little juvenile and closed-minded. Religion is a word, one simply meaning that you believe in a power greater than yourself. You are criticizing people for abusing and cheapening the word, but since you fail to accurately define it beyond platitudes (yes, they are just as overused by the anti-religious), you are doing nothing better.
What I sense is that, rather than call people to true faith and repentance, your “common ground” is just going to unite spiritually weak Christians and unbelievers into an unfruitful little pity party. I find it hard to believe that asking people to badmouth their “religious” churches and pastors (and do you not see the horrible potential for gossip and bitterness, here?) will produce anything that the Spirit can bless.
Also, why do you think you’re special because you were hurt by a church or by a religious person? The reason churches are so screwed up is because WE are so screwed up. The story of Christianity is God making a masterpiece from us broken pieces. How many people do you think you have hurt or scarred without even being aware of it? How can you judge churches in such a general way without succumbing to that same spirit of self-righteousness you are condemning? One of the best pieces of wisdom I ever heard was “stop complaining about your church; if it were perfect, you couldn’t be a member.”
I really wish you the best in this ministry, and I hope your heart guides you to those in need of healing. I don’t respect your methods, but I am believing the best in your intentions. Good luck.

Religion to me is something to follow, relationship to me is something to protect and live. I have my whole life lived under the condemnation of what a Christian can do and can’t do. The biggest question at our church is “why can’t we dance” . I remember getting an answer that was feeble at best. What I have learned is that the closer I get to God, Jesus the more like him I start to feel and act. I don’t do a lot of things anymore because they when I look at things now I ask myself 1. Does this glorify God or man it makes my decisions so much easier. In my RELATIONSHIP with Jesus just as with my children I want to do what is best for them. I often ask myself this also when I feel that God has left me, I look back and see that it was I who left him…I turned my eyes off Him not that He ever turns his eyes off me. I think I remember the Religious people of Jesus time…well weren’t they the ones who NAILED him to that tree? If your lifestyle doesn’t change after you have met the King of Kings then maybe you really didn’t meet him. We don’t need to tell the world we changed they should see it and feel it. One last thing, Christians true ones love the sinners and hate the sin….I have a family member that is gay, I don’t hate her I love her I don’t agree with the lifestyle but she and her partner are welcome to my home anytime with out always being put down or preached too. I pray for them and leave their relationship to God. Jesus said “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” That is how I am now trying to live my life.

I really appreciate the comments above. From my own experience, “religion” doesn’t get us through the difficult times- and that is the proof that it doesn’t work. I was very active in leadership roles at several churches growing up, but when I started to have doubts- I felt I was pushed away. No one was willing to listen to my questions and offer real answers. I saw greed, misuse of church funds, hypocrisy, and everything else that others have already addressed in listing out their hurts. However, I know that God is still God. Now that I’m back in a church I can appreciate, I feel like I can invite my friends who have real doubts. They can come and get real answers without being judged. That is the difference between religion and church to me. Some churches are just religion, and some christians are just religious… but some churches and Christians are just out there going after God to the best of their abilities. That’s where I want to be!!!

Well so far from what I understand is that religion is more law than relationship. Jesus hates religion but what about God? Does he? The Jewish have been very religious and have followed the law to the T. They where more about religion than relationship from what i have heard and understand. religion and relationship is more of a balance than one overpowering the other. god with holds the religion and Jesus with holds the relationship. of course god wants a relationship but i don’t think he is the one to go to if you want to look for good relationship tips. when reading the bible jesus seems to be about relationships with people, he was always talking to people, no matter if it was his followers or if it was the tax payers. god is the more of the fatherly type to us, he seems to be the law keeper or the iron fist. so we need to see both sides and where they come from. im not sure if this is exactly the whole thing but its what i think about it. i personally hate religion for all of the judging Christians out there. we get a stereotype from them and i know a couple… i don’t know how to bring it up. ill find out sooner or later.

I believe religion in this context is being used the same way I would use the word “legalism.” Whichever one would like to call it, it is one in the same. There ARE things that Jesus hates, such as sin…and I believe legalism is another. Legalism seperates us from relationship. I think that’s what this site is getting at.

I have seen churches that are more legalistic/religious and ones that are less so. Trying to be honest and transparent with people is not weaking the message of Christ. Admitting that we all fall short is not lowering God’s standards. We must admit fault to accept forgiveness! I have never met an unbeliever, or one who sits on the fence, who wants to have a discussion about the Law. Christ Himself never approached people this way.

We are victorious through relationship, not religion.

I strongly agree with the motive behind this movement. And Completely agree that the man-made definition of religion today is wrong and hurts many people. I won’t go to MANY churches because they don’t understand that Salvation has saved us and, according to The Word of God, made us the righteousness of Christ.

However…. I believe the statement, ” Jesus Hates Religion,” to be completely false when you’re talking about TRUE religion.

-Can religion save us? No.
-Can religion hurt us? Yes, when we twist it and impose Biblical standards as hateful rules and judgment on others when the Bible tells us not to judge in the first place?
-Instead, are we supposed to love people where they are because Christ loved us first? Yes

The reason the church is where it is today is people judging each other when they should judge themselves.

But that is not “Religion.”

My point is this. Jesus does not hate true religion. The word says…

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, to visit orphans and widows in their afflictions, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Nothing any man can say can contradict God’s Word.

-Jesus does not hate visiting orphans and widows in need.
-Jesus does not hate keeping yourself undefiled, unspotted, blameless, and honorable.

-Jesus does HATE when Christians, in their hypocrisy, push away unbelievers and baby christians by hateful judgment.
Jesus, as we should, HATES the sin, but LOVES the sinner.

I found this site by seeing the billboard on the BA expressway, placed perfectly about 200 yards west of a Church…which I thought was quite poignant and appropriate given the statement the URL makes.

Religion in and of itself has been pretty much the biggest question of my life my entire life, growing up here in Tulsa/Broken Arrow, it was shoved down my throat every day of my formative years and was, I think, the greatest reason why I broke away from all the mind jobbing and rhetoric and started thinking for myself, potentially out of rebellion, potentially out of self defense.

Western Religion, and most especially religion in the Tulsa area, will always, and forever, for me, call up the image of Robert Tilton talking gibberish into a TV camera, calling it speaking in “tongues” while spending all his time asking for peoples money. It will be Oral Roberts demanding money from God to come down out of his tower. Its wrong, its all wrong, its always been wrong.

I consider myself a Deist, or a Theist, not an Atheist, but someone who believes in a higher power or intelligence, but will not take the word of other men or women for what form that power takes.

I most especially call myself a Deist/Theist because at my grandmothers funeral a pair of “god fearing” Christians that happened to be outside the Catholic Church where we were having her services were “kind enough and concerned enough” for the state of our mortal souls that they condemned my entire family to Hell for being Catholics and Jews. Thanks Christianity….much appreciated, they’re both lucky I remembered the teachings of Christ that day, and that my Jewish relatives didn’t hear them because they’d have been arrested if I hadn’t dealt with the situation myself and kept them away from the family.

Anyways, I do believe Jesus hates religion, I believe God, the Higher Power…whatever it is, also, finds religion abhorrent. Look at the crimes committed in the name of God in the last 2000 years alone, look at the state of the world today as those that believe in “God” in their own way attempt to assert their world views on everyone else, by any means necessary.

Look at the fact that the entire western christian ethos revolves around ignoring the Old Testament in its entirity, as a book that they no longer “need” because they have the New Testament and its the “new” book for the new age.

This is nothing but arrogance and ignorance, ignorance of people who do not understand that their New Testament was put together in a committee at the Council of Nicea and ordered to be the new word of “God” by a Roman Emperor, leaving out many many other books and epistles that did not, by design, prove or uphold the proof of the divinity of Jesus.

Jesus would hate religion today. He would hate Western religion most especially, because even though all religion is wrong, the Western interpretation of Christianity has been the most horrifyingly twisted moral and religious ethos in the last 2000 years, and its not a religion its simply a socio-political network that does nothing but brainwash children and indoctrinate them at a very young age to adhere to the beliefs and agendas of their Church the Churches their Church may personally approve of.

Show me a church where I can sit side by side with Christians and Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and Deists and Theists and even Atheists all loving each equally without fear or hatred or disrespect…and I will be sitting in the church Christ meant to leave on this earth.

Til then…I agree, Jesus hates religion. And so does God.

I’m extremely offended to see the word HATE right next to my Lord and Savior’s name. Jesus is the opposite of hate. He is everything good and pure. I realize that a lot if not all organized religions have lost their way but there is no hatred in Jesus. My opinion and view of the Church at Battlecreek has plummeted after all, you are a church and therefore a religion, a gathering of religious people. So what your saying is Jesus hates you too, I couldnt disagree more.

I was one of those religious people for a long time. I looked down on everyone who had obvious sin in their life. Guess how many people wanted to know God because of me? No one! Then, one day I was dutifully reading my Bible and read about Mary Magdalene and how Jesus was telling everyone to stop putting her down for loving Him. Then He said, “He who has been forgiven much, loves much.” My first thought was, “That’s not fair. Just because she sinned a lot, she gets to love more?” Then God’s finger touched my heart. “You don’t believe you have just as much sin as her?” I suddenly saw myself as dirtier than Mary Magdalene who had been pretty sinful. All my religious background had caused me to be unloving toward others and love is His greatest command. I had to put down my “religion” and accept God’s forgiveness. Jesus hates what religion does to people. Religion separates us from Him and from each other. I am glad He forgave me for being religious.

The website is polemic to say the least and wildly incorrect and inaccurate. Jesus does not hate and He surely didn’t (and doesn’t) hate religion. Hate is a transforming emotion like Love, but He did not hate. He was angry, sorrowful, happy, joyful, elated, but never hateful when He was with us.

“Religion” can be defined as a “denomination”, an organized belief of a supreme being or beings. I imagine someone else would or could define it anyway else to suit their purpose and perhaps my definition is inaccurate or incomplete.

Jesus did not equivocate about sin. It was clearly wrong, but those who came to Him were forgiven. The woman about to be stoned to death was not told to “not get caught doing this”. She was told to not do this sin again.

With Humans, we are very capable of branching off and creating our own version based on our ego. There are churches all throughout Tulsa that exist within yards of each other and yet there is a separation of belief so profound, a member of one could not fathom going to the other.

This is not unity in our Christian faith. This sets us against each other. Religion can set us against each other, but that’s on arbitrary teaching. Religion can also unite us and help us to see our own sins and use that to see that we’re all in the same boat…we all need forgiveness. Religion is not bad. Jesus did not and does not hate anything. Satan hates, not God(the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit).

The website needs to be changed to something different: JesusPrefersChristianUnity.com

One common thread I’ve seen in the above comments is that people in a hierarchy of a church abused their power and/or gave conflicting testimony. I’d like these people to understand that all people everywhere in every religious belief and those outside of religion will make mistakes in judgement about their actions. They will sin. I will. You will.
If I say that Jesus is our Savior, our Messiah and I also am involved in an affair, that doesn’t change what I said from being truth to something false. It says something about my behavior….and only that.
It doesn’t mean that a particular religion that I belong to is false or wrong or in error. My religious beliefs don’t condone what I’ve done.

Truth exists outside of us and our existence: God

It is being revealed slowly and fully to us as we can handle it, but we will sin regardless. We will never fully understand God. He is an eternal mystery and thankfully so.

If someone wants to believe that all religions are wrong or evil, they are overreacting in a bitter way because that is not true. We need religion, an organization to maintain the truth and teach it consistently from one generation to the next. All of our existence contains these corporate structures from our Families to our small communities to large cities to states to nations. Without this guidance, we would be living in anarchy and never have gotten out of the woods.

Yes, we have errant leaders……who doesn’t?

Sometimes we get so caught up in “doing good” and “acting right” to score points with God, that we miss what He really wants from us which is a relationship. If we are only going through the motions out of guilt or duty, we are not free to love God. He wants our heart first! God loves us unconditionally so once we try to “earn” that love, we are falling into “religion”. Jesus came to free us from it so we can have a true relationship with the Father. As we develop that relationship, we allow God to work in us and through us to “do what is right”. For those of you who are struggling to be good, relax and let God love you where your at. When we concentrate on duty/rules we replace relationship with religion.

I get the point and was very curious of the billboard on the BA Expressway. People go to Church to see what’s in it for them. If you want to be more like Jesus, don’t hang out there all the time. Get out of your comfort zone, go to the well, and have an impact on other people. People get old, Possesions get old. My salvation, never gets old. Jesus would not stand still, he had a duty, and made the most of it. Make the most of this short itty-bitty life.

I find this a very confusing message. Religion is a multifaceted word, and can communicate either something sterile and stemming from our minds, rather than transformed hearts…or it can communicate something of great beauty and vitality. I doubt for instance that you would say: “Jesus hates your religion.” (that would change the meaning, but the meaning is contained just the same.) Nor would you say: “Jesus hates feeding the poor,” Nor would you say: “Jesus hates holiness.” But according to the bible “True and undefiled religion is this…to feed widows and orphans in their distress…. and to remain unspotted by the world. ” If you mean to simply target tradition, tradition itself can be lifeless, or a means by which the wisdom and insight of an earlier generation is carrier forward into the future.
I think your message is trendy, short sighted, limp,and franky — illogical.

To blanketly say “Jesus hates religion” is to attach a terrible emotion(”hatred”) to our Lord and this is false. To condemn a church or a religious denomination or all denominations is to condemn your own church at Battle Creek. It was money ill-spent…intending for a response from those driving by. You’ve received very few so far.

I repeat: Jesus did not and does not hate. Even with His fully Human self, He did not hate. Change or take down the billboard sign. You are teaching or projecting an idea that is false, a lie.

Gods definition of religion:

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the father is this, to visit the fatherless and the widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world

One way – ONE TRUTH – One life.

I get what you’re trying to do here…and I sort of agree with what you’re trying to do. BUT, I’m also offended slightly. First, (and yes it’s a minor detail) but you don’t capitalize Jesus in the title of this website logo…that bothers me. I was taught growing up (I’m only 27 so not some old school’er) that we capitalize names and things of importance??? Anyway, I’ll get over that b/c I’m sure you have good reason!? I did grow up in church, so I really do GET what you’re attempting to do. You’re trying to attract those jaded by the “church” in the past, and I know there are many who feel this way and might be attracted to this. But I do agree with many others who are saying Jesus doesn’t hate. But it’s an “attention get’er” right? I suppose putting something like “Does Jesus like religion?” on a billboard isn’t quite as effective?

Anyway, all this to say that I’m holding my judgement on this series by Alex Himaya, until I actually here what he has to say. I think it is a VERY fine line he’s walking here…but I also think I know where his heart is on this. I know the intentions are good…I just don’t know what the ultimate effect will be!?? I pray that it will reach those who feel jaded, BUT at the same time I pray that it will not turn other church’s and/or religions against Battle Creek. It’s a slippery slope and one that could be a fast fall if not careful.

I’m concerned with the name of this website. I agree with several of the posts that suggest that Jesus does not hate religion. Religion as defined in Scripture is certainly not hated by Jesus. He’s dissapointed with empty ritual and pretense. He confronted the Pharisees and Saducees for their hypocracy. He’s still not impressed by those who profess one faith and act in opposition to that same faith.

I’m concerned also with the depiction on the billboard of the logo that includes a horned icon clearly depicting the devil. I’m not sure the shock value of His name in the same sentence with an image depicting the devil will have the desired effect to create a discussion that will attract the lost. That is your intent isn’t it?

I applaud your intentions but question your methods.

I think what is meant by the term “religion” is what the word means today to a lot of people. In Jesus’ times the Pharisees were the “religious authorities”. I do believe that Jesus hated evil and sin and I also believe that He wasn’t being perfectly nice when He ran the money changers out of the temple.

I believe that Jesus is a God of Love but also one of Judgment. Sinners are forgiven but His wrath abides on those who are unrepentant. Before you argue with this you may take the time to read Romans 2:5

The word “religion” has a negative connotation, and I think the negativity is justified. Although I am a christian, I don’t really consider myself religious. Religion seems like part of a man-made institution that alienates people by posing rules and restrictions that are not always biblical. It’s basically how man screws up what God intended his people and the church to do. I equate religion with legalistic views and hypocritical actions. It may spring from good intentions, but it strays too far from the love Jesus modeled and expects. Religion misses the point, and in many ways does more harm than good.

I dreamed death came the other night And heaven gate swung wide
An angel with halo bright Ushered me inside
And there to my astonishment Stood folks I’d judged and labelled As quite “unfit”,
of little worth and spiritually disabled Indignant words rose to my lips
But never were set free
For every face showed stunned surprize – No-one expected me!

unknown

I personally would like to know from these people saying that they are offended to see hate and Jesus associated if they believe Jesus ever sinned. They say “Hate is a sin and Jesus never sinned so he didn’t hate”. Okay the reason i’m asking “did Jesus ever sin?”is Because Jesus did hate and if you believe hate is a sin than that means you are calling Jesus a sinner. So am I calling Jesus A sinner, and am I saying hating is okay? By no means! There are different kinds of hate. Jesus hated to see that the pharisees had opened His Father’s house as a place of trade. This made Him angry… but it was a righteous anger. In the same way His hate is righteous. What is the opposite of hate? Of course you know it is love. So tell me this ,how does Jesus feel about sin? Does He love it? of course not, to the contrary, He hates it. And once again He hates it with a righteous hate. Another argument some have against this site ” if you are saying Jesus hates religion, you are saying Jesus hates The Church at Battlecreek because churches are religion.” This could not be farther from the truth. The Church at Battlecreek is a gathering of believers, this is extremely different than religon. That is all I have to say.So to be offended by The phrase “Jesus hates religon” is completely ridiculous. Because Jesus does not hate his children but did and does hate religion.

People, people, people. Slow down and take a deep breath. Some of you are way off what he is trying to get at. The only way you are going to understand why he decided to post this if you come to the 6 weeks service and then you can or should make your comments. If you don’t hear what he is trying to bring to light then really comments are worth less. Listen and then you can lay judgement. You are reading or thinking way to negatively on this.If you but Jesus and hate in the same sentence all want to comment and try to say what one is thinking. The only way you are going to know what Pastor Alex is trying to say is if you hear what he is saying about what he put up and why he used the words “JESUS hates religion”. Six weeks of this he is talking on, if you don’t agree what he is saying then write about it. Some of you are way to quick to judge and that is what Jesus does hate. HMMMM>

WOW! Religion is the performance track attempt to get to God. There are so many rules and regulations that it is – and was meant to be – impossible! God said Jesus was the only way, and the ‘Jesus track” is grace! Thanks for the clear guidance and call to truth, Alex! Awesome!

according to what we know about jesus, i wouldn’t say he’s either for or against organized religion. he was more concerned whether or not you actually had a personal relationship with god.

personally, i have my own morals that i live by, that i like to think god instilled on me through influence of society or family. by staying true to those morals, i’m true to god.

i don’t need an outdated manual that’s been tampered with and abused to tell me how to live my life.

i feel sorry for people who say, “god doesnt want you to do this” or “god hates this” because truth be told, until we die, we’re not going to really know what he likes, what he hates, and what he wanted us to do or not to do.

i was born and raised as a catholic

I love this

Jesus hates religion but he doesn’t hate relationship. If its about religion then you forget about the one who saved you. Having a relationship with Jesus isn’t about going to church or reading your bible (those things are all good) But if we forget about why we are saved we forget the point

Now i dont know wat the preacher is preaching about. I havnt heard him, but i would like to say a few things! Jesus died for u & me plain & simple! So that we may hav eternal life. Thats ALL he wants for us. Is to hav Him in our heart & life!! To have a RELATIONSHIP with Him! To talk to Him EVERYDAY.To do wat He tells you to do, be his hands and feet. Our job as children of GOD is to follow Jesus. Be the light He wants you to be, sprend the word SHOW LOVE no mater who they are where there from or wat they believe.When they see ur light, when they can see the Jesus in you they wont wanna be caught up in a religion or tradition. Work out your own salvation!! If you wanna be a Baptist or a Penicost, its doesnt mater how much religion you preach or practice if you dont have JESUS in your heart & life you have missed it!! MAKE HIM ur ALL IN ALL!!!!! I LOVE YOU & GOD BLESS YOU!! =)

I feel it’s egotistical and arrogant for us to decide we know how Jesus feels/felt about any thing…either way.

religion is worthless. it got me nowhere.
i grew up in a legalistic church, a legalistic home, and a southern baptist pastor for a grandfather. every sunday and wednesday, pretense took over as we made our way to church. i sat in a room of people who did nothing but teach the “philosophy of the do not do.” meaning: do not drink, do not curse, do not have sex, don’t dance in church, keep your hands down during worship, wear your best for Jesus (because if you can’t look nice for Him, you shouldn’t look nice for anyone), if your opinion is harsh-keep it to yourself, women be quiet, men be holy and be a deacon, teenagers turn your music down, and children be quiet during the two-hour, adult-targeted, passionately yelled (with a perfectly timed tear or two) preaching of the “philosophy of the do not do.” no wonder i left every week, not knowing where to start on my list of things to stop doing. no wonder the church never really grew. the only people joining were other fake families with letters of transfer from “sister churches.”
of all things i hated about my upbringing, i think i hate the pretense the most. why waste your time trying to look like something you aren’t? why can’t people be real and upfront? don’t people need to show their hearts instead of their “Sunday best?” would outsiders not feel more comfortable in a REAL church instead of a fake one? since when did it become important what I wear or why there are drums on stage or the tattoo on my leg? how is it possible that teenagers can worship the Lord in a victorious way and the whole time be stared down by the “holier,” better dressed crowd sitting on the outskirts? it is such a sad, tragic moment when someone can watch the most romantic of moments – a child of God worshipping at the throne of their Creator – and judge. that seems more evil than any crime I can think of. what fulfillment do they find in donning their pastel, polyester outfits and doing their hair in the typical Sunday fashion and showing up with their family to church (ON TIME, of course) and walking in the air of perfection? do they feel as though it is worth it? don’t they know how fake they are? don’t they realize they are alienating the rest of the world? and not only the non-believers. don’t they know their “perfection” makes other believers feel as though they are coming up short? it is hard to believe in grace and mercy and redemption when the very people who have access to those things would prefer to stand with their arms crossed and their eyebrows lowered and judge my lack of perfection. what would they say if they knew they were pushing the world out the front door and sneaking me thru the back door for not measuring up? shouldn’t i feel at home in the local church instead of wondering if everything i’ve learned is a load of crap? i’d rather spend my time with people who are honest about their screw-ups, then to waste 5 hours on a Sunday with people who truly don’t care about the person next to them. i’m tired of pretending…but more so, i’m tired of feeling like i have to. i will never be enough, but a least i know that, instead of living in a cloud of fake perfection. ignorance may be bliss, but for those who hate the pretense, it simply annoys the hell out of us.
perhaps we (as the body of Christ) would be further along in reaching the unreached, if we would have put away the “philosophy of the do not do” and focused on others. instead of berating people for their sins, maybe we should introduce them to Someone who loves them in spite of it. more so, maybe we should tap into His character and love those people, too. the list of things to not do did nothing for me except make me feel ashamed and alienated. what if, instead of focusing on trying to look our best, we were real about who we really are? perhaps the rest of the world would be able to identify with us and actually WANT a relationship with Christ if we would stop acting like we aren’t real people.
the population of the world continues to increase and so does the number of unreached people. it is tragic that we have wasted so much time on religion instead of reaching the world for Christ. instead of giving me a list of stuff not to do, like drink or have sex, i wish i had been told that, whether i do those things or not, i’m still usable by the Holy Spirit. there are bigger fish to fry than the mistakes i make. perhaps we should be less concerned about the “don’t do” list and more concerned about the orphans, the widows, the hungry, the oppressed, the abused, the genocide, those without clean water, those dying daily from PREVENTABLE causes, the poor…why are most churches sitting in their pews, inwardly griping about how the worship service doesn’t specifically meet THEIR needs? why aren’t they out in the world, putting feet to their faith, and getting those feet dirty with the problems of the world?
the tragedy is, we’ve missed it. up to this point, we’ve missed out on what Jesus was really telling us to do. Jesus looked at the adulterous woman and said, “Go and sin no more.” you know what? i think she actually went and changed her life. but only because Jesus loved her FIRST…before He said that to her. no one wants conditional love. the Christianity i grew up with revolved around conditional love and performance based acceptance. i don’t even want it…and i certainly understand why the rest of the world doesn’t either.

*disclaimer* i did post this under a false name and email address. why? because i probably sit next to you on a Sunday morning and i’m just as self-conscious as the rest of the world. how do i know i won’t be ushered out the back door for having “radical” thoughts on the “forgotten” Gospel? how can i trust people who say one thing on Sunday, and something completely different Monday morning?

If God truly sent his only son to save us, and he died in the horrible manner that we’ve all been taught, do you really think his laws are open to personal interpretation. Isn’t that the root of the problem with modern day organized religion? It’s a watered down version of what used to be, and what Christ tried to bring to us as a guide for how to live our lives in a Christ-like manner. Modern day “christianity” is a watered down version of the parts of the bible we all feel like trying to adhere to. Don’t like what a church/religion teaches, go start one that teaches your interpretation. Don’t like what the bible says about the things you do wrong in your life, write it off as outdated and tampered with. “Religion” has a negative connotation, because every time a modern day human decides they have a problem with what their current brand of religion teaches, they just go find one that doesn’t criticize them for the evil in their lives. I am by no means a perfect man, and not always a good example of a christian, but I know that if any of the bible and what God inspired is true, then it’s all true, and we’re not to pick and choose what we agree with, and base our lives only off of that. We all live in an instant gratification society, and no one is going to tell us that how we live is wrong, but 99% of us probably are. “Many are called, but few are chosen”. In typical American fashion, we try harder every day to accept everything about everybody, regardless of what the bible and Christ teaches us. Homosexual, it’s not your fault, you were born that way, just like the child rapists, axe murderers, corporate theives, etc. etc. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Their is still such a thing as sin, and evil, and right and wrong. Most modern day ministers, and clergy, just won’t preach it anymore because of the risk of offending, and then losing, some of their congregation. Sometimes people need to be told that the way they are living their lives is wrong, and not acceptable before God. “Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens” Genesis 19:24. “Turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly” It’s not open to personal interpretation.

My understanding is that religion is man working his way to God by having his good deeds out way his bad. If that’s the case; I don’t know if anyone will make it. Christianity is about a one on one relationship with Jesus and therfore not a religion. So……yeah, Jesus hates religion.

Me,

You won’t be ushered out the door at Battle Creek for being yourself! I have visited dozens of churches in the Tulsa / Broken Arrow area and this is the most “real” and least legalistic place I can find!

This website is amazing. I have been pulling tooth and nail to get my husband to see eye to eye with me on religion and it just is pointless. He believes the people leading the church are as sinful as the people walking the streets. He believes if you live your life right and you are true to yourself then you are doing what you were put on this earth to do. I dont believe you have to go to church and listen to praise songs to make your way to heaven. I am a nurse and treat others how I want to be treated and truly see people who they are on the inside and I believe deep in my heart that God watches me and smiles!!! Thank you all for having the guts to take the stand and make a difference.

Exegesis- An attempt to discover the meaning of the text objectively, starting with the text and moving out from there.

Eisegesis- To import a subjective, preconceived meaning into the text.

Many of these statements about religion and hate would be valid if and only if they were truly sought out and researched statements. However, some of these were not. Some of these statements were preconceived notions of Jesus and religion. But if you were to seek out into the text (the Bible) Revelation 2.6…you hate the deeds of the Nicolatians, which I also hate…Revelation 2.15…you hate the work of the Nicolatians, which thing I also hate…This is Jesus talking to the seven churches with the seven golden lampstands. If you don’t believe it, look it up. Don’t use preconceived notions until you have sought it out accurately. There’s much more I could say. What we have always been taught, seen, or even developed on our own, may not be truth as Scripture itself says. Scripture interprets scripture. If you don’t believe me, come check itout yourself and please, by all means, read it first. Thank you TCABC for doing this series and listening to the direction of the Holy Spirit. Don’t stop.

I think that it is of the utmost importance that we consider God or Jesus for everything that He is. We can only know what He has given us in His word (The Bible). The Bible is very clear that we have a God that is both patient and kind as well as jealous and just. To insinuate that hate has no part of God’s or Jesus’ characteristics is to ignore printed, cannonized scripture. To ignore the aspect of God’s justice how do we explain the doctrine of hell? Both the Old Testament and the New Testament have exstensive writings describing the nature of and extent of God’s hate for things done by men on Earth. Consider the words of Zechariah 8: 16-17 : “These are things that you shall do: Speak the truth to one another; render in your gates judgements that are true and make for peace; do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, declares the Lord.” This is one entry among an entire page in the Strong’s concordance dealing with God’s hatred of things. Isaiah 58 uses strong words concerning the religious activity His people were portraying. This gives us a clear understanding of the Lord’s position on the issue at hand. All of this to say that we should love God in His entirety, or not at all. To omit any portion of scripture is to make a false image of who God really is… Jesus therefore hates religion…

Well, it seems we’re getting into a debate on whether Jesus hates religion or not. IMO, I think Jesus loves all of his people equally. Enough said. No ifs, ands, or buts. He loves everyone equally. I’m not going to say he hates religion…but honestly…. it wouldn’t surprise me. What we do need to do, however, is for all the people of different faith backgrounds to remember what Paul said about the different parts of the body of Christ. “The arm cannot say to the foot ‘I can live without you’, and the body cannot be solely an eye.” My point is, I believe that religious groups need to come to a peaceful truce and realize that God wants a personal relationship with us. And because we are all different, he is going to manifest himself in a unique and personal way to all of us. We need to go “We may have different views on different issues ie. I’m a democrat, you’re a republican, but that doesn’t mean we can’t grow from each other…It doesn’t mean we can’t all get along. I love you man!” PEACE BRA! Ok I’m trying to lighten the mood here a little…but I’m being kinda serious. God said that we are to love him with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind. And then he said that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves, and by this we fulfill the law of old. Does love murder? Does love gossip? Does love go and tell the world that it will burn in hell if they don’t repent?….well, for some yes because they’re trying to save people from a fate they wouldn’t want. The way God manifests himself to me, I don’t see that as love. I see that as someone trying scare me into getting saved. They might as well point a gun to my head. When I hear someone doing that to me, I don’t hear “God loves you and just wants the best for you.” No, instead this is what I hear. “REPENT OR DIE YOU ****!” Not everyone hears that, but I’m just hoping that I can give one of many viewpoints. So here is my final statement on Jesus hating religion, then I’ll say what I think about religion….it’s too big a question. It’s possible that Jesus has a very love-hate relationship with religion itself, though not its people. He loves all his people equally and unconditionally.

Now what do I think of religion?…..that’s a loaded question.
I grew up in an environment that was very legalistic. I didn’t feel I felt in most of the time at my church. I felt like the rebel. To add insult to injury, I began feeling early on that something was off. I didn’t know for a while, but I had an idea. I was, yep, gay. So now it was just like “Crap, I’m the outcast, the rebel, and the faggot….GOD WHY??!?!” I had a number of years where I just hated God and didn’t want anything to do with his people or, most of all, him. He didn’t like me so why should I bother? I hated Christians for a good time too (still working on that). In short, I hated just about everything that had to do with God. I still have lots of times where I have to quiet my anger towards religion. I’m still quite furious honestly. There are times when I’m ok, and other times when I just want to go punch that conservative Christian right in the face and go “You live in my shoes and feel my feelings, feel the pain I’ve felt, the loneliness, the isolation from God and humanity and everything I love most. You have my experiences as a gay growing up in a conservative environment, being told often that I was going to burn for eternity for something I didn’t even want. Feeling completely at loss between trying to please God in the best way possible and hating him for it and being alone the rest of my life (I’ve had enough of loneliness), or disobeying him and knowing he has forgiven me and leading the happiest life I possibly can. You feel everything I’ve felt. THEN YOU CAN JUDGE!” Anyway, so I ended up in a spiritual group that has shown me that God loves me exactly as I am and that he has a plan for me that I couldn’t even imagine! They’ve shown me just what unconditional love is, and because of that, I feel God’s love in my life like never before! I love Jesus so much! Religion….give me some time. It’s the thing I’ve been working most on as of late.

P.S. Honestly the first thing that went through my head when I saw the billboard was “Oh my God, I’ve found a church home!”

There are many issues.
*Religion never saved anyone. Remember the phrase – “It’s not what you know, it’s Who you know.” I agree that pure religion is to help the fatherless and widows.” AND “to keep himself unspotted from the world.”

*That last half is the part of pure Biblical religion that most Christians have a problem with. The problem is today’s Christian lives just like the world. An good example is the person with the disclaimer said that the Holy Spirit could use him even if he drank and had sex. The Bible says “flee fornication.” So are you going to live a sorry life as a Christian just because you were brought up by sorry Christians? Why dont you use your upbringing to change and live a life TOTALLY dedicated to God, from the heart, not just words.

*The goal should be living a holy life, a righteous life. It’s seems that Christians have never read 1 John 2:15-16. Christians in the world today think nothing of watching a movie where God’s precious and holy name is drug through the dirt. Remember, if any one loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them! And many Christian young ladies seem to have never read 1 Timothy 2:9, where it says to dress modestly.

*The Christian of today goes to the same movies as the world, listens to the same songs as the world, watches the same TV shows as the world, and does many of the things the world does. Remember, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and smells like a duck, it’s a duck.

*Have you ever noticed how many people text in church? They are more concerned about anything but the message that God is trying to get to them. How can God reach a heart that is more interested in their cell phone? If you really want to live a life dedicated to God, keep your cell phone in your car when you go into the house of the Lord!!

*I do believe Jesus hates religion. But He hates those who play with salvation more! It’s getting to the point that Adam Clarke wrote of in the early 1800s in his commentary on 2 Thess. 2:3. He said that eventually there will reach a point where no one can get saved because no one will know what it means to be saved. I believe the church has reached that point! Many think that if they say the sinners prayer and read their Bible and go to church, that they are saved. Salvation is being sorry for your sins! Repentance! Becoming a new creature! Having hatred for sin! Hating this world! (Remember Demas? -2 Tim. 4:10) Witnessing to others! Living a life for Christ and dying to self!

*I left a church that played clips from Desperate Housewives during the service and recommended unGodly (but “Christian”) books. Christians today seem to be scared of the Truth!

*Please Christian, die to self and live for Christ!!!

Thank you and God bless!!

Yes, I agree. Jesus died for it all. To say that Jesus died + our religious good deeds gets us right with God is wrong. Anything other than “JUST” what Jesus did demeans God’s gift of his Son to us. To understand and belive that it is God’s will to reconcile us to him through his Son Jesus, is the sign to those who belong to him. Religion plays no part in salvation and serves to diminish what God has done through his Son Jesus.

I feel like BA is full of ‘religious people’ who are ate up with the name it and claim it theology. I recently purchased property with a Christian Realtor who ended up lying to me to save the sale. When a supposed Christian lies to another Christian I can only tend to believe that one or the other is not what they claim to be.

If not, then John 13:35 is false I would guess. Either way, getting ripped off by a religious person hurts.

Yes, I agree. Talk is cheap! Jesus said in Matthew 15:8 (as well as Titus 1:16, Mark 7:6, etc.) “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.” Anyone can say they are a Christian. The proof is in the fruit. Galatians 5:22-23. If a Christian doesnt have love, joy, peace gentleness, etc. than do they really have the Holy Spirit? Is a Christian who lies, cheats and curses really a Christian? the Church in the age we are living in is ready to accept and believe ANYONE who use the word “Christian.”

To Christians everywhere. God is watching! He knows your heart. Repent from your denial of Him. (when a Christian curses or lies, they deny Jesus – read Matt. 26:70, 74)

Saw the Billboard today…. I agree

Grew up going to church, taught all ‘the rules’ and I followed. It wasn’t until I move away from home I discovered a bit of grace, but the RULES were ingrained. I couldn’t help it – i was always working for my salvation, even after I was saved – maybe even some today (i’m now in my late 30’s).

Even went to Bible College and became a Bible teacher. I was part of the problem, i would teach grace and all the RULES (ie religion). I’d get caught up in being good rather than just being.

Religion has screwed me up, from growing up with the rules to listening to preachers preach the rules and then see them break the rules. Rarely did I see or feel the love from the leaders. (Can we say Pharisee)… its the real people, the normal – those that don’t get caught up in the religion that I admire.

I believe religion have messed a lot of people up… Those that keep church at arms length seem to be more normal – they don’t take ‘church’ too seriously (their relationship with God/Jesus – yes they take very serious).

I hope I wasn’t a Pharisee when i was a Bible teacher, but I think at times…

Today. My church has politics, if your not in the ‘in crowd’ its not easy to be a teacher. You have to play the ‘religion’ game to be involved. Say the right things, be religious, etc… I’ve seen this in every church I’ve been a member.

I don’t play those games anymore. I don’t care. I don’t have time for it. I’m actually sick of it.

I want to be involved but I can’t play the game of religion.

Also – no preaching at me, I’ve forgotten more about Bible & religion than most people know.

please withhold name/email

Religion is not made from God but by man with a limited understanding of truth, therefore it is fallible. The gathering of individuals to learn, share and support one another and the world with a common love for God and one another is a good thing and should be encouraged. The institutionalization of fear and judgment mixed with the love of God is like mixing oil and water and making poison for the soul.

Jesus came to teach God’s way of love and peace but men pervert the message out of the ego’s need for power and control. If Jesus really wanted us to worship the way Christians demand it then wouldn’t he have told everyone, everywhere he went, “BE SAVED-BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP ME NOW!” or “PICK UP YOUR SWORDS AND KILL EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT WORSHIP ME SO I CAN CAST THEM INTO HELL!” Jesus loved everyone. He didn’t agree with the ways of religion but he never said. “I hate you” to anyone. He was very clear for us to love God and others as we love ourselves. It’s all about God’s love for the us.

I guess it seems easier to focus on the blaming, being judgmental or feeling like you have a special relationship that other people and religions don’t have with God than laying down the weapons of evil and turning the other cheek. The “Holy War” is not the unholy war that men fight with one another and try justifying with religion, but the spiritual battle for men to recognize their brotherhood under one loving God.

We need to use the “F” word found in the Bible – “f”orgiveness.

Forgive everyone! Religion often teaches judgment and gives you all the reasons why you are justified and “they” need to be punished. Look at the divorce rate for religious and incarceration in Oklahoma (location of Battle Creek Church doing this website) – it is extremely high-how is that religion working for your families Okies! Instead, ask forgiveness for any injustice you have felt, then forgive others. Maybe you should thank those who you felt treated you wrongly. Chances are, if you really pray and search, you should thank them instead of condemning them because of the lessons they taught you.

So let’s get back to the message of Christ and let the world sit together at the feast of peace-just like Jesus wanted it or would you rather have man destroy himself in apocalyptic proportions? Either way, God’s will of peace and love reigns in the end, you choose.

The message of the statement has really hit me hard. Lately, I have found myself wondering why it is that I am at church on Sunday. Do I come just because it is what I have always done since a little girl? Do I come to fulfill my “job” at the church and therefore earn “points” with the others there? Or do I come because I have a deep intimate relationship with God and I want to spend time learning more about Him and showing the love I have received to others that need it as well?

I grew up in church and moved around a lot. So I have been to several different churches. I have attended Catholic and Episcopalian churches , where the formality was stifling and did not allow for intimacy with God. I have been to Baptist and Nazarene Churches where all I heard was what not to do and never what a Christian is supposed to do. I have also been to “Holy Roller” Charismatic churches where the lack of any structure made me wonder if it was all a big show. It has seemed to me that for some people going to church is more about showing off the new outfit you got or socializing with your “class” of people.

Due to my upbringing, I have struggled with legalism. It is an easy trap to fall into especially when it is all around you. While I know that Salvation is through the Grace of God, I sometimes find myself thinking that I can earn more of God’s favor by what I do in “ministry” to Him.

Having listened to two of the sermons in this 6 week series thus far, I have learned that it is not what you do or believe that matters. If anything it is why. Am I doing what I am doing for God because I think I can earn more favor with Him and thus be better in His sight than the person sitting next to me in church? Or am I doing it because I know that I am a sinner saved by Grace and adopted in to God’s family; and therefore, minister to others because I am so grateful to God and in love with him that it is my “best” attempt to show that love and “thank Him”.

Jesus does hate what man has put in place in order to “serve” Him and earn His favor. I do not like it either. It is a constant guilt trip and comparing myself with those around me when I should just be focused on Him and expressing His love to others.

To the poster above, the “why” should be all that matters. An omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent deity *needs* nothing from you. If the root of your belief is pure & true, you can stop right there. As a person who thinks questions of individual faith posed in public are an affront of the highest order, I can tell you that “ministering to others” is a job for which none of us are fit. People who are receptive to Jesus or have a strong faith don’t need it, and those who don’t will be swayed far less by your words than by the integrity of your actions. That word – integrity – is significant enough that it’s meaning should be looked up in a dictionary.

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head with your assessment of why the majority of people go to church, and indeed, why they are happy to see their donations to the church result in erecting these enormous monuments of vanity that God himself struck down in the old testament.

If it was accepted as a general truth that you didn’t need anything religion or churches had to offer – that it was all a distraction and ran contrary to God’s will – what kind of people would continue to go, and why?

Thank you so much for this. I’m glad a “church” is stepping up to the standard of Christ Jesus. I’m worn and tired of Churches being judgmental and stiff necked. I’m in no way a great man and I measure low on the “American Christian” scale. I went to church “religiously” untill I was 5. My Parents left the church and I’m never sure why. They refuse Church but have no problem with Jesus or God. I started going when I was 18 after I got saved and though I have had my “winters of discontent” I still go.
My wife and aI went to a couple of churches that would not even let us serve because we weren’t old enouph in the faith, as they put it. TCABC opened up and asked us to serve even though were not even members. It was a shock to me. I’ve been told I’m too young, not trained, not old enouph in the faith, and even that I don’t make enouph money to serve, before and this turned me off to the “church” though I went cause its the right thing to do… yah forgive me for legalism in that statement.
Most are turned off of church because were tired of the whole “we’ll pray for you” atttude. When I tell you I’m having a problem I don’t want to hear that I want someone to really help, to talk to, to cry with. Jesus didn’t tell lazerus’s family “i’ll pray for you” but “he wept.” he didn’t tell the woman at the well “well, your just not good enouph maybe you should…” he invited her to take hold of a life in him. Matthew the tax collecter, Jesus didn’t give him an investment portfolio of how he could do better but told him to follow. When christ fed the thousands he didn’t ask them first for church membership.
I put my real name on this cause I’m willing to state the truth and if you don’t like it well… talk to my father in heaven, and My brother at his right hand. Yes my wife has left me and I screamed at God cause I was mad at him. I want to searve the church but I got 4 children to raise and its hard to find the time. Yes I drink to much and smoke. No I dont’ count myself a great christian man but a work in progress. I pray TCABC will be a place I can call home with a family that isn’t too ashamed of me to help when I need it.

Jas 1:26-27 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

So this is my steryotype of how to get into heaven… I have to “accept Jesus as my personal lord and savior”. What does that even mean? The bible and the preacher talk about the lord giving our salvation and choosing his children, etc, etc. How can I possibly be the one to accept the salvation??? Another steriotype is that I have to wear chacos and North Face gear, I have to have a “quiet time” everyday (but it has to be in the morning), and when I pray, I have to use “old school” verbage, so I can sound more like a Christian. Somehow I will use the secret word phrases so that God will actually listen to me. Unless I use words like “thou” and “My Lord and Savior” and I always have to end my prayer with, “please bless this extra large Mazzio’s pizza to nourish my body”. I mean, I can NEVER talk to you as if you’re my friend and can never talk to you like you were ever an actual human being. I have to use “special” words in order for you to love me.
The reason I hate religion is because of all of the hypocrites. They say they believe every word that is in the bible, yet they want to hurt as many people as they can in order for them to advance themselves. For example, Jesus said to turn the other cheek when you are struck. Then why are people so quick to go to war with anybody they not even were attacked by, but people they just disagree with. I hate watching people get so bent out of shape about politics that they forget that everyone involved is a “human being” and needs to be treated the way Jesus treated people. Jesus didn’t hate on people that were of a certain political affiliation, he hated on people for not loving other people. I hate that people have the ability to jump to conclusions about other people just because of where they are from, what race they are, or what political party they belong to.
This leads to another example, why aren’t there any black people at Battle Creek Church??? It seems like every church is so selective and/or prejudice against anyone who is not like them. I don’t see any middle eastern people? Any Chinese people? The church today is a collection of like minded people. The church only accepts people who look like them, talk like them, and believe in the same ideals as them. If you don’t agree, then find another church or religion. If you don’t love George Bush, Love War, and Love Guns, then find another religion.

I’m happy someone(a church) is bringing this up. I go to a church that is judging over people of all types, and I dont agree with them at all, but i can’t really do anything about this. I’ve gone to that church since i was born. Im only 16 years old, so usually my opinion about this stuff is written off due to my age and knowledge of things.
When I first saw the billboard on the highway, I tried to think of everything that would be going through everyones head when they saw that. I was honestly astonished to see a sign that said that. At first, I thought it was a joke and laughed. Then I thought that maybe someone was trying to make a point that was needed.
I wouldnt say Jesus hates, because I dont think He does hate. But I would have to say that I think He might dislike it. I mean, religion is practically a group of poeple setting out to “fix” and “judge” everyone that isn’t doing what they are doing. At least, thats what i see it as. You have SO many different types of religion. I mean, whenever someone asks me what religion I am, I say “Christian” and they always ask what kind of Christian? I dont have a type, I am just that. I believe strongely in the Lord for He is my savior and he is my future.
Now, im not saying all churched do that. Ive only been to my church, and i KNOW my church does it. Once again, im only 16. I still am learning my lessons and growing up. and yes, im a very strong Christian. I struggle to show it sometimes though, which Im sure we can all admit too. Me and my mom use to be close to God and each other. But when she got remarried to a new man, things changed and struggles got worst. the man she married doesnt really believe what we believe. He soon after changed her views, and I was left to stand for myself. Its hard to push through the day when the people you live with disagree with you, but alot of poeple, including myself, do it every day. and we ONLY get through it because God is there for us.
Be who you are. Believe in what you see as true. Be faithful in yourself and God.
God loves you. Jesus loves you. Religion is what it is, but to myself, i am God’s, not a religions. this is my opinion, and its all I can say.

I am so amazed at this “study” and am enthused that you guys are going through it. Thank you for letting us be involved in one another and our opinions. Its nice to hear something fresh for once.

I could not believe it when i say the sign on the BA.
Are you serious?
Jesus hates religion?
Maybe you forgot to read the Bible.

James 1:25-27 gives us the answer;

25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.

27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Note in verse 27 that pure religion is to keep yourself unspotted from the world. No you cannot go out and drink, hang out in clubs, smoke, and carry on in the world and be a Christian. Being a Christian is to be Christ like.

WAKE UP!!!
Read the Bible and just do it!!!

Jesus does not care what you or I think. We must read the Bible and do what is says. If it’s not in there, you can’t do it. We base our “Religous” practice by what is written. I don’t care if you think you have “worked out you own salvation” with Jesus, you will be sadly mistaken on the day of judgement if you do not obey the Word.

Please feel free to add any comments on this simple question:
Can the average person in todays age be saved without reading and obeying the Bible?
I am not talkig about someone with a decreased mental capacity, or the only man in the world stuck on a desert island without a Bible. I am talking about you and me in the 21st century with the Word available at the touch of a finger. What will be your excuse?????

Thank you for your input.

Mark

We would be better olff without religion-whether it is christianity,
islam,budism, hindu. They are all based on fairy tales and
have been the cause of much war, suffering, and misery. I am much happier since I became an atheist. No more pretending to believe in
virgin birth, risen Jesus, water into wine, originial sin, etc.
Hooray for freedom.
I

One of the points I agree with most was posted here by a teenager. “Out of the mouths of babes.” The Bible has been used to justify war, slavery, segregation, the second-class citizenship of women, homophobia, acquiescence to tyrannical governments and more. These are immoral, hate-filled ways of thinking, in my opinion. And I say immoral because the Bible is not my code or creed. I know the Bible well, so see it’s potential for hurt as much as it’s potential for wisdom.

I hate religion because there are verses in both New and Old Testament that clearly map out a path for these things. If religion here in Tulsa/Broken Arrow were nearly as hardcore about say, the “sin” of divorce, as they are about homosexuality or abortion, their pews and coffers would be more than 50% less full. Pick and choose, pick and choose.

(2nd Post) I’m the Bible Teacher post (ie Saw the Billboard today…. I agree)

Was at the service Sunday 11/8/09 and I agree – again.
I connected with the “going to a Bible Study was the same as a friend going out drinking”. They both were for selfish reasons – where we felt accepted.

Let’s say you grew up in church and were taught Quiet Time/Read Bible/Do mission/Pray always/etc and you did it out of following the “rules” because that’s what Christians are suppose to do.

Much later, you want to break that – you want to stop doing the Religious Things for God’s favor and do them because of the relationship – but following the rules are SO ingrained when I try to read scripture, it goes back to I’m doing this to be good or maybe God will bless me for reading. I’ve been fighting this battle for years.

Alex, (or anyone else that grew up legalistic) practically – how do you change the motivation? Do you just stop doing until you want to? (BTW – if your ONLY response to this is to “pray and trust Jesus” – keep that thought to yourself.)

A consideration: Maybe legalistic types (Pharisee) should become heathens (Prodigal Son) for a time so that they may truly experience grace?

TJ

So, the other day my wife and I rented a movie and one of the previews was for a new documentary by Bill Maher called Religulous (a combination of the words “religion” and “ridiculous”). You can watch the trailer here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkyLrDpaUg

As I sat and watched the trailer a couple of things jumped to my mind. The first was, “I think Bill Maher is a pretty good advertisement for becoming a Christian.” Seriously, the guy is cynical, sarcastic, completely comfortable belittling people who disagree with him. He’s mean-spirited and doesn’t mind hurting people to get a laugh or at least some attention. This isn’t new. I’ve watched him for years now, and I’ve seen him do this a thousand times. The great thing, to me, is that the Christ we read about in the gospels is nothing like Bill Maher. Christ is compassionate and accepting. He meets people at the point of their need and he does so across racial, cultural and gender lines. He refuses to attack people who disagree even with his religious beliefs (i.e. the woman at the well). I think there are people, like me, who listen to Maher’s vitriolic rants and think, “Man, I don’t want to be like that guy.” If you are one of those people, can I humbly suggest that you try a relationship with Christ? That relationship would fashion you into a person who looks nothing like Bill Maher.

Now, to be fair, you probably wouldn’t know that by looking at the people who claim to be his followers. It didn’t escape me as I was watching the trailer for that movie that all of the adjectives I was using to describe Maher, were ones that I could use to describe a lot of people who call themselves Christians. It wouldn’t take a whole lot of digging for you to discover cynicism, sarcasm, belittling, and just general vitriol coming from the church. As a small example, read the statements on facebook made about our current president by people who identify as Christians on their profile. They are often personal and just plain mean. That attitude often applies to a variety of people who disagree with us like people from other religions or denominations, college professors, radio and television personalities, and sometimes, even you. I’m sorry about that. The truth is, as much as I hate to admit it, I’m guilty as well. I sometimes use irresponsible and polarizing language when I am talking about someone who believes differently than I do. As much as I hate to admit it, I am often more like Bill Maher than Jesus. A lot of us are. I hate it that we have confused you in that way. It is no accident that the only really harsh words Jesus spoke were directed at the religious leaders of his day. He could accept a person who was selling her body, a person who drank too much, a person who was exploiting his fellow countrymen for profit, a thief, a demon possessed man, but he couldn’t stand “religious” people who looked down their nose at everyone else. If I’m honest, I fall into that category way too often.

I do find Bill’s crusade against religion and religious people really ironic though. He acts exactly like the people he hates the most. If you just listened to the tone of his voice, you couldn’t tell the difference between him and a lot of pastors who will be in the pulpit this Sunday. And maybe that’s a sad commentary on both of us.

I’ve grown up in the church and my father is a minister and has been for 15 years. I’ve seen church and religion chew people up and spit them out. Including battle creek. Most church’s I’ve been apart of have been absorbed with self and all the things of this world. Just sit through a staff meeting and you will leave there wondering where is God in all of this. Church’s are merely businesses that do whatever it takes to get more people in the seats to increase giving. If the body of Christ truly knew where the tithes and offerings were being spent they wouldn’t give a dime to the church. I’ve seen this stuff first hand. I’m not saying that this is battle creek. I’m just affirming that Jesus does hate religion. I think He’s not in it at all. Also, a part of me thinks that this whole series is a desperate attempt for the church to reconnect and identify with peoples hate for religion so the “bottom line” doesn’t sink any lower. This is just a mere scratch on the surface of how bitter I am towards the church.

Some days I loath the religious people I have met. Most days I am simply disappointed. Here is a perfect example of why.

I am a truck driver. One day I was making a delivery where 3 trucks from the same company were waiting for the next available empty trailer. Two of these trucks were company owned rigs (thus the exterior of these rigs were not customized to reflect the driver’s personalities). The third rig was an owner operator’s rig. This rig had been customized with a lighted cross on the grill and numberous other religious symbols proudly displayed on the sides. As I dropped my loaded trailer and sent a computer message to my company getting the OK to head home I heard these three drivers talking over the CB with a fourth driver. This fourth driver worked for their same company. It quickly became clear that this fourth driver had arrived last but had obtained an empty trailer first. Thus intentionally or not this driver had jumped the wait line and was leaving with the first available empty trailer. Very quickly the other drivers became upset for they had been waiting for upward of several hours for the empty trailer. One driver quickly became rude, vicious and vulger. This obscene tirade quickly focused on this drivers gender (the driver was female) and assumed sexual orientation (assumed to be lesbian, although no such polite terminology was used) and her lack of sexual morals. I hope I have made it clear how awful this tirade became. As I left this facility I drove by those three parked trucks. I could clearly see which of those three drivers had their CB mike held to their mouth and I could hear the hateful words streaming out over the airways. The disgustingly rude and hateful driver was the one who’s truck was covered with religious symbols.

Religion is a tool. It is what you do with it that determines if it is healing or harmful. Way to many people misuse it. If you want to truely make inroads into gaining respect then you need to call yourselves on the carpet when you do unchristian things. Before you come to my house and inform me of how I have sinned you had better make sure your house is in order!!! Claiming that those people (the christians who act unchristian) are not your responseability because they are not from your church, sect or branch of christianity is a cop out. Most importantly you must be critical and honest with yourself first. Note when you act in an unchristian manor. Own the act, fix the act and hold yourself accountable. You cannot expect others to change if you will not change yourself.

So to conclude… Before you come after me because I am not a Christian… Be it to convert, condem or even to just converse…. You should work hard within yourself, your chruch and your religion to become Christians.

As I was reading some of these, I saw how some people were saying that they go to church to, essential “recharge their batteries”. I feel that this, along with other things, is a main reason why the church is so far behind where it should be. What I mean is that the church should be a time where we connect with other believers to share how the Lord used them that week. It shouldn’t be a place to go to get strength for the rest of the week, and church was never meant to be just on Sunday’s, and Wednesdays, any time you go and meet with other believers that is the church.

I’ve always seen church as a sort of AA meeting for sinners. Many people go to get support from other christians to speak about all the temptations they have overcome and all the “right choices” they have made that week. I’m actually okay with this, we all need support and encouragement, but to get everything that is intended we need to get past this and focus more on the one on one relationship with God. Jesus on many occasions stepped out on his own to witness, but even Jesus had disciples. Alone we can reach a few, but united we can reach many.

When I think of religion I think of steps of service that have been layed out by man to get to the Father, but there is only one way and one truth. I don’t need to take communion every Sunday or confess my sin to a priest. All I need is a one on one relationship with God.

I love the message. Unfortunately in the several times I’ve been to Battle Creek, I’ve always felt like there was an incredible arrogance in the church with regards to how things are being done. For centuries churches have been trying to figure out how to “get it right”… to blend together in such a way that they can know Christ as deeply as possible, and to share His love with others…. yet when you arrive at Battle Creek you see a lot of videos saying “At our church we don’t do this, and at our church we don’t do that” then it sends a message that other churches have it all wrong… and while we could argue the validity of that all day long, I think it’s important to keep in mind that Christ is for all those who gather together in a spirit of worship, regardless of what small differences individuals may have with eachother or what people may do differently.

I’ve not only enjoyed this series, but I’ve learned so much. The Pastor has taught us a lot and has spurred much thought and debate. Most importantly, for me, he sparked a spiritual embarkation to search for the history and scripture regarding this subject.
It surprised me to find out just how significant this argument has been since the ressurrection. (The significant argument, in my opinion, is the one thought that says salvation can be achieved through one’s self works and obeying the Laws of Moses and the laws of the Church VERSUS salvation being achieved through Jesus the Christ). This argument, I found out, can be traced all the way back to the Apostle John versus the Gnostics. The Gnostics believing that Jesus never actually claimed himself being a deity and believing that salvation can only be achieved through the individual’s knowledge and actions. Hearing this is what inspired the youngest of Jesus’ 12 disciples, John, to begin writing (at the age of 90) his first of three epistles that later became books in the New Testament.

I must admit that before this series, I never made the connection (in my mind) that my soul had been saved for eternity the moment that I accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior. I was told that but could not wrap my head around it. I’m struggling and will continue to struggle to “shake” these notions of my sin damning me forever. I’d like to thank my Church (TCABC) and my Pastor (Alex) for awakening me and relieving my enormous guilt and burden that religion has placed upon my shoulders since I was a little boy taking my first steps into The Church of Christ church that I was raised in. (Instead of Church of Christ, it probably should’ve been named Church of the Elders with raised eyebrows, guilty stares and condemnation).

Finally, Alex’s suggestion of diving into Romans is what put a bow on this subject. My problem with the notion of guilt-free sin from now til death was resolved in this book. Its not guilt free and Romans taught me the significance of still doing my very best not to sin despite my salvation.

Awesome Series!!!!!!!

Thanks again, Shane

Law and grace. I’ve been listening to Pastor Alex talk about these things in this sermon series. It is one of the core messages of BattleCreek, where I have attended for years, and despite having lived with the truth of grace for a while now, I sometimes still struggle.

A friend told me recently that the world can be divided into sinners and Pharisees. In the story of the prodigal son, you see the two: the heathen younger son and the good older boy. A line from a Rich Mullins song (can’t remember which one) says, “Ain’t nobody so bad that the Lord can’t save ‘em/Ain’t nobody so good that they don’t need God’s love.” Sinner and Pharisee. Wild one and the good boy.

I’m blogging this morning because I don’t want to read my Bible. Part of me does…but I can’t tell if it is a religious voice in me. If I just did whatever I wanted, I would go play Bejeweled Blitz on Facebook, but part of me knows that there is nothing down that road but emptiness. Hm, I don’t want emptiness. I want purpose. The road labeled “Purpose” seems to have the first step of reading the Bible, but I think I’m going off-road. Talk to me, God. I don’t want easy answers.

It is as if I am the older brother, and while coming in from the fields, I hear my Father celebrating with that stupid brat who has come home. In the story, the brother gets mad & his Father comes out to sort of chastise him, sort of coax him toward the right path. Since I know the story, I can hear the party, and I know I should go in. Put on a happy face for my younger brother and join in.

But if I go in because of obedience, because I am a slave to the Right Thing, then I am still dead inside. I think I will sit down, over here by the barn, and just think. Daddy will probably come out and ask me what I’m thinking, and I’ll tell Him that I want to do what is right. I think He will pat me on the shoulder and let me sit here until I figure this out. You know, He killed a fatted calf for His lost son, but there is still another calf eating good feed in the stall. I can hear it munching. There is still grace for me.

And I don’t think I’ll read my Bible. I’ll just keep sitting here, by the barn. I’m not going to put my tools away; I’m not going to wash up. I bet Dad will send out a plate, and some wine.

Jesus would have to be offended by all the stupidstitious beliefs that gets carried out in his name. First of all, there is a movement in some conservative churches making a big issue out of the Harry Potter Movies because of the theme of witchcraft and wizardry. Oh come on! Don’t tell me that there are people out there that believe that sort of thing is real! There are some people who carry the faith of wicca which is a earth based religion based on older religious practices some which do include witchcraft but from my studies on such things, I have found that witchcraft is nothing more than a working of the mind. It’s not real. Anybody can visualize! That was part of transcendental meditation long before wicca practiioners got a hold of the concept. And its not just Christianity thats got silly beliefs about paganism or witchcraft, I’ve met pagans who were seriously into fantasy thinking. I even knew someone once who thought I was casting spells on her. I’m an ordained humanist. We don’t do that.
I’m also an ordained independent Christian minister, they don’t do that either. I would like to see Christians become less worried or concerned about things that don’t exist and Harry Potter aside from being a very good series of books and movies about courage and bravery, is just a fairy tale. Fairy tales are NOT real.
And then there is the Christian who visited my house recently and was offended because of someone in my house was wearing a tee shirt with a dragon on it. What does this mean again exactly? Run it by me again
but try to season it with a little salt of common sense! God made komodo dragons, do you think little miss sister Christian is lecturing God about
his creation as much as she feels the need to lecture people in their own homes about what they wear and why is everything evil, demonic, and wrong in the minds of most Christians?! Needless to say, I would of had no problems kicking her out of my house. She left quickly. Maybe she was afraid that dragon was going to leap of f that shirt and bite her in the rear! We’ve visited so many intolerant churches in this place that I’m quite happy not to go into any of them!
They call it rebuking when they start telling people they are going to hell (even if they have already been saved). I call it an attitude adjustment when I toss them out of my house. They snub you if you don’t tithe enough and I read up on that tithing thing…interesting that the bible doesn’t do it the way some churches do. Just thought I’d point that one out. People disgust me when they thump on their bibles saying well the bible says this while they’re violating their own rules and when you point that one out, they really don’t like it. So don’t thump on books and quote what its says to me. Even the devil can quote scripture.

I prefer rationality and common sense to stupidity. Religion does nothing but either take peoples money, controls peoples lives about like a cult, and sooner or later you get a truckload of fanatacism. The inquisition
comes out of fanatical thinking.

Remember this, science flies us to the moon, religion flies us into buildings. Believe what you want. Wear what you want. Read what you want. Watch whatever movies you want. If nobody else likes it, what does it matter? Too many anal retentive Christians out there think they represent God while they’re doing the work of the devil anyway.
Jesus ate with sinners. I’ll be over at their house(the foods better).
At least then, maybe I’ll be closer to him. Until then, rationality, common
sense, and logic guide my steps. (My theme song could be God by John Lennon and I’ll read my bible but I won’t worship it.)

Joel Osteen’s sermons are about the most positive thing I’ve seen happen to Christianity. I watch this guy. I listen. I learn. I feel better
about people when I listen to him. It’s not God we need help understanding, its people.

Believe in God, not religion. At least then, you still have a choice.
Religion? Not the best of history there.

I just heard a story on the news about a father in a suburb of Oklahoma City who took his sons life because he believed that the child had the devil in him. His wife tried to stop him and was injured herself. People have used religion for years as an excuse to commit atrocities and ugly, horrible, despicable acts. Religion is a very bad thing. The evidence is in the news
today and is often in the news.

It can be a very liberating experience to finally be free of religion.

Now a question or two. If Jesus died for all our sins past current and future then what about people who come to “realizations” that Jesus was not who He said He was? Along the lines of what some of the Coptic Gospels say. Is it possible to loose your salvation not religion but salvation?
Also is the doctrine of universalism right? Jesus was/is the son of God and I believe He is but is He really the only way to God the good person, the devout Muslim aren’t they going to go to heaven? I mean God is love and He sent Jesus for everyone so is believing in His existence enough? Not my beliefs but am being faced with the issue from family members who are getting into the universalism craze.

I appreciate what this project is trying to accomplish, but i feel like its falling back into what its working against. Using shock tactics (the projects title and marketing) as well as speaking up for Christ as though you can hear him more clearly than everyone else is exactly the sort of abuse that leads religious fanatics and their agendas. Soft spoken patient approaches to common human civility is the currency of peace and harmony. Be charitable, without boasting of it. Be good to your fellow man not because you know someone is judging your acts, but because you have true innocent faith in goodness and feel rewarded for the deed.

My definition of religion is a set of rituals used to honored a higher power or ideal.
I do believe that Jesus hated religion. He taught spirituality and relationship. Jesus did more to hurt “religion” than any other man that comes to my mind. At least in his time and at his location.

At his time, I think most Jews (like a lot of Christians and Americans today) were going through the motions. In our age, alot of people goto church, but don’t pray. Pray loudly but don’t help. Judge, when Jesus tells us not to throw the judgement stone unless we are blameless (slight paraphrase). Americans also worship their status, their entertainment and many other idols.

Now, I’m far from perfect or even an ideal Christian. But I try to be a blessing and make my surroundings better. I try to do His will, when my demons aren’t getting the better of me.

Any emails or twits welcomed.

I’d like to respond to Cody Clouds questions…NO DOCTRINE is right.
Thats why its called doctrine and not gospel. And no, it is not possible to loose your salvation. I really think people loose their sanity before their salvation however sometimes doctrines and religion make them think in ways that make them act in ways contrary to their salvation. No body and I mean NOBODY has the right to hurt another human being in the name of religion or religious belief! PERIOD! Really if you have the teachings of Jesus in your heart and in your philosophy why do you need religion?
It has always been between the individual and God. And even scripture says that the sabbath for example was created for man not man for the sabbath. People take things too seriously and out of context and then if they are prone to hollywood induced and nurtured “fears” they fall into fantasy prone thinking and thats not healthy psychologically. To believe in God is a good thing but to try to start thinking for God and talking for God and calling it religious doctrine is what fumbles the ball on that issue.

So the answer Cody, is a mixed one. Faith is more than enough because believing that there might be something higher than yourself keeps a person humble. So believing in God is more important than religious doctrine on what pleases God. Anyone with a conscience (and a healthy dose of reality, common sense, logic, and rationality) will know what is displeasing to God and what is pleasing to God. You just kinda know in
your heart if your heart is right to begin with.

Sometimes I think when it comes to Christians, they need to start looking for the messages God is trying to send them through all the things they judge, assume the worst about, and despise. Perhaps then, they’ll get
the big picture and maybe become better Christians and better people.

Religion was never a strong aspect in my childhood and as I grew and matured into adult hood I began to see many churches are not about compassion and humanity and basically do not practice what they preach. However, in past year I have met a wonderful Minister and attend his church and he teaches reaching out to those less fortunate and to not sit in judgement of man as its only God who can judge. Forgiveness starts with us and we must reach out to those who are being suppressed. http://www.rickyslife.com my son was treated horribly and thru the church we found peace and compassion and understanding. God loves all and forgives.

I would think that anyone who wants to become an ordained minister, in themselves create a religion. They want to guide and prod and teach and influence and approve and disapprove…..much of what gets thought of when “religions” are mentioned. Man (males and females) needs religion. We need some entity to keep us from re-inventing God through some self-induced revelation. The fact that there are 30,000+ different and individual christian churches throughout the U.S. tends to lead me to the conclusion that “we” tend to construct our own “religions” in our own backyard. The truth about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit and all of His creation doesn’t change with popular culture or science. It is timeless since we do not change or evolve out of our sinful behavior. We commit the same sins that were committed 3,000 years ago.
Most churches/religions are created out of political reasons and ego. Our failings have created these warring entities instead of joining together.

Hmmmm…..so common sense tells us of everything that offends or pleases God. So, He didn’t need to send Moses the Lawgiver. He didn’t need to guide His people through prophets reminding them of their “common sense” So, we don’t need the Bible. Just “common sense”.

I haven’t heard of that heresy in quite a while.

I have a very strong objection to the usage of the word: HATE. It’s experience is as affective as “love”. A person is almost transformed internally, irrationally. Love sees beyond all things. Hate can’t get past any of them. Love heals. Hate sickens.
So, the church at battle creek is saying that Jesus was sickened, angry beyond recognition, violently opposed, etc., etc.. Because “hate” is not just “I just don’t like you much at all!” It’s a moving emotion and experience. To apply this emotion or thought process to Jesus is inaccurate, incorrect, untrue, and, I dare say, heretical. Jesus did have emotions, but “hatred”? How could that explain His willingness to die for us and to forgive us while dying on the cross? How can the immense love He has for us live in the same body and soul along side “hate”?

This website is nothing more then a vehicle to hate denominations….to cause divisive, irrational behavior for the personal benefit of this so-called “faith community”…..which, by definition, wouldn’t sponsor and breed such anger towards a large part of the Christian community.

Shame on you battlecreek for your hypocrisy.

personaly my view on religion is that while it is all great and good to be organized and what not to be close to whichever creator you believe in you dont have to go to church. it is believing in something bigger than ourselves and commiting to it. to changing your mindset on life and making your self a better person. unfortunatley the world does not recognize all of the religions and while we should learn to accept them the majority of us do not. which is actually realy sad because of the fact that religion does tie into our everyday lives and has been a factor in many historical events. religion has influenced many people within our world and will continue to influence the world around us. it has been around since the begining of time and will still be around for centuries ahead of us until the end of time. so realy why should people fight about who is right and who is wrong when really we are all right and wrong.

I have recently moved to OK from England and I agree with what you say on this site. My experience of this is from the church I used to attend. We used to go in and take a seat, then sing, read off a sheet of paper together, listen while a totally bland pastor rattled on from a completely incomprehensible version of the bible, sing a little more then leave. There was no involvement in the service whatsoever apart from communion.

I believe church is not within a building full of people who desperately want to keep a good face in society and are running away from their sins believing simply attending will save them, but rather a building full of people who want to come together to be with Jesus… To share with each other their trials, their worries and experiences in the name of Christ. To grow, and be strengthened in the Word… To praise God and remember what Jesus has done for us. That is religion. That is church. That is what Christian means.. Not simply reading from paper.

I think that as we all examine the religion around us- in our churches, in our families.. I think that the thing we need to look at the most is the religion in ourselves. Any time we allow the rules and regulations dictate what we do and how we act- we are stepping into reglion.. any time we stop doing things BECAUSE I love God and others, and start doing things SO THAT or because we HAVE to- we are spitting in Jesus’ face and the grace He has given us… Any time we feel like we HAVE to do something we are saying that HIS sacrifice wasn’t good enough and WE can do something better- THIS IS THE CRUX OF RELIGION!

This conversation was not started to come against churches, parents, ect- this conversation was started for US to look at OURSELVES- How am I being religious? How am I pushing people away from Jesus? How am I loving people or Jesus for the wrong reasons? This isn’t about blaming everyone else for what they have done- it is aout examining OUR hearts and seeing where WE have gone wrong!!

I have been brought up in the church- Baptist & non-denominational.. I have been hurt by the people in the church… I have been hurt MORE by so called “Chrisitians” than anyone else… I pressed on because it was the right thing to do… I have done what I thought was right… I have seen God do miracles and work through me and the people around me… I have seen people’s lives changed and bodies healed- MY life has been changed and body healed… I have even run a ministry- and yet… I have found myself fallen back into what I am doing for God instead of just LOVING HIM.. When you love someone- you want to do things that please them- THAT is where the doing comes in..

His desire is to have a relationship with us- when a person is in a LOVE relationship, it doesn’t matter what others are doing. You just want to spend as much time with that someone as you can- you do everything you can to be close to them.. yet if we do not work at the relationship, it can be easy to fall into compacencey- even in your closest relationships- to take them for granted- when we do this with God- that is where the religion slips in…

Friends, please do not take this site to bash each other or their stand points- use this site to examine your own heart- religion is EVERYWHERE! The only way we change that is to start in our OWN hearts.. I commit to aggressivly work on MY RELATIONSHIP with God and not allow the complacency of religion to sneak back into my life- will you?

ya ill tell u whati think of religion.. its nothing but a bunch of bull and has to many rules that u have to follow through with to much crap that i really dont care about and who says that we need a religion to no or think god existes? …

The thing that aggrivates me about religion is that each one says everyone else is going to hell if they do not confom to each sect’s specific beliefs. I feel that faith is a personal thing, not to be dictated by man. I had to laugh the other day. I asked my friend why she went to the Church of Christ at the far end of town and not the one near her. She said the one near her is the radical church. Now if that isn’t an oxymoron, I don’t know what is. If they follow the Bible exactly then there can be no radical church, only the church. Religions are man-made to fit the needs of a group of people at a time. Faith, however, is all encompasing and very personal. I prefer Faith and study and understanding that the Bible was written by man and not all of the books written were included for one reason or the other. Therefore, the ideas and ideals are what is important, not the details. All the books impart the necessity of belief in one God (old testiment history) and in Jesus Christ (new testiment). One must believe, have Faith, and try to do good works. Being saved is a part of Faith. Baptism is a part of faith, whether sprinkled or dunked is not important. It is the Faith that counts. As a group meets together and becomes a church then Communion should be a part of the worship. Beyond that ritual, the rest is just rules set up by man for convienence. Going to hell or heaven will be between God and the individual, period. The more requirements we as men make the narrower or more exclusive we make our religion. Then we become exactly what Christ turned the tables on in the temple. Did you know that many of the books in the Koran say the same as the books in the Bible. It seems to me that God was making a point for all mankind, not just the “Christain”. It is time to embrace Faith and not religion. It is time to embrace all and not just the few. Faith is not exclusive, but all encompasing.

I host a community group in Pryor and I think this particular series is way overdue. I personally had been hurt deeply in a past religious setting, and I’m telling you when you are hurt by your church family, or those who are supposed to reflect the love of God, it can close off a persons spirit. I feel all too often people in a “religious” setting compete with each other, and the love of God isn’t about who can be the best. Jesus all ready washed us white as snow. We aren’t about competing, but about completing. God is so vast that one of us can’t reflect him, but instead the combination of all of us, and our many diversities, reflects a bigger likeness of him. All these little lights, can certainly burn brighter when we are all together. We need to love instead of find fault with one another, cause love covers a multitude of sin. At least it did at the cross. I thank God that someone has the courage and loves God’s children enough to teach this series.

This is a link to a great series from my church that discusses this whole idea of Jesus hating religion (hint: it’s true)

http://www.lifechurch.tv/message-archive/watch/religion-bytes

let it be known that it takes one a whole lot more faith to be an atheist in Oklahoma than any other religion, or in any other red state for that matter. hate us if you wish, but how can you be a follower of Christ and hate anything.

Jesus hated religion and religious leaders as well, but not the people. They couldn[t see the truth right in front of them. They where the ones who had him killed. We still have those among us today, and if they could get away with it, wold kill us. Jesus is about love, mercy, grace, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, kindness. He is about doing good to all. helping and healing the hurt, depressed, oppressed, those down and out. Being a Cristian is getting to know Jesus for who he really is, and it is all about relationship and fellowship with him. Time spent in his word and presence. Then you truly know the mind of Christ and how he truly hates religion. Loves people hates their actions. He is good and all good and perfect gifts comes from him. Romans 8: 9,10 Romans 10: 9,10, If you don’t know him pray and ask him in your heart and to show you he is so very real.

i have visited the BC Church and found it to be interesting. I still feel though as if they have their little rules and doctrines and are big on church membership which almost sounds like they are preaching against something they still believe in themselves (basically being religious).

Let’s get rid of demoninations and doctrinal differences and treat each other as brother and sister irregardless of denomination or Calvinism is superior to Arminianism and then I will buy that Battle Creek is a church that really “hates religion”.

Until then, you are flunking the test. And you set yourselves up for it!

If jesus came down right now he would actually be very dissapointed in the majority of all so called christians. if jesus said to love all people then why is it that you always see a group of people protesting about one thing or the other? and if you take any notice the majority of the time it is the so self proclaimed christians saying that it is “against gods will”. is everything againsts god? sound to me like your just afraid of what you dont understand which is in our human nature. But the fact of the matter is that if god said to love all then why wont you do just that. why wont your come out of your comfort zone and open your mind and accept people as they are and treat them as the children of god instead of treating them like sinners. Because im sure that your mothers all tought you the rule that says to treat others as you would wish to be treated. and where do you suppose that one came from? huh?

I grew up a Christian and knew at a young age that there was more than just my mother’s view of Christianity which was being instilled in me. I had my arguments with my classmates over what Jesus wanted us to do. After graduation from High School I stopped being involved in religion of any kind. There was no kind of emotional break from the beliefs I had been taught, they just no longer made sense to me.

When I was older and took a few year interest in other religions, Wicca primarily, but I tried to touch on everything, including the natural sciences. What I eventually came away with was that there is no real proof of what really happened to put us on this planet and gave us life. We have no proof of any sentient being which answers our cries for help. We only have belief.

I once read, in a book about “Wicca by Doreen Valencia ‘To say my God is not you’re God’ is to place a finite limitation on the infinity of God.” Although the book was centered around the Wiccan Religion, that phrase struck a cord of truth in me which lead me to the belief that all religions share the same end result, to make you a better, happier person. It really doesn’t matter which religion you choose to do so. I also believe that the sciences play a part in what is “true”, such as the age of the Earth which lends some credibility of Darwin’s Theory of Evolution.

I am at peace with my belief system and only ask that other’s respect this. I resent people trying to change my perspective or are militant about their faith. I resent the modern fundamentalists trying to make this a religious nation, or more accurately a Protestant Fundamentalist Christian Nation. They are trying to re-write the Establishment and the Free Exercise Clauses of the Constitution. They are hired for life to our Court’s by President’s who have the most radicals whispering in their ears. What greater affront to the Establishment Clause than this?

I resent those who say that America was established as a Christian Nation, these same people who forget that Columbus was a Catholic; Jamestown was established before the colonies and even historical documents discussing the wording of the sentiment which reflects spirit of the intent. I resent President’s, leaders of our Nation, being elected for their religious beliefs. I resent religion or the term God even being uttered by a civil servant. Government is a secular entity and should remain such. High level political figures should be prohibited by law in even mentioning their spiritual belief system.

I resent religion taking advantage of those who are easily led, who want to believe. I resent Televangelists telling their viewers that the more they give, the more God will give back in return and the disillusionment when God did not pay that next month’s mortgage payment for a family with a laid off provider and they are then reduced to homelessness.

I resent a religion who teaches his followers to pray for a promotion or raise in salary so that they may buy a better gadget than your neighbor. I resent religion elevating Christ to God status due to a story in a book which has so many contradictions (The Bible). I resent religion basing itself on this same book filled with conjecture, parables and fallacies.

In one of the star trek movies, Captain James T. Kirk asks a very good question…”What does God need with a starship?” Therefore…also ask
this, What does man need with religion? Also what does God need with it?

Just a little food for thought there cause when you apply common sense,
its only fair to ask those kinds of questions. It is not and has never been a
doctrine or belief system we needed. It was God and a few simple rules set
about by a voting society. We don’t need to believe like this person does or
act like that person to be close to God. As Joyce Meyers once said,
“you can sit in a garage all day, thats not going to make you a car.”

Search for God in your heart, not in man’s doctrine.
It’s not religion anyone needs, its guidance (and churches ain’t been
giving much of that lately.) I felt closer to God after watching the movie
Oh God with George Burns than after attending ANY church.

When you can humanize God, you can have compassion for God.
I think the beginning of many good relationships can sometimes be
started best with compassion.

So when I realized this domain was hosted by a church group, I was ready for some sort of sneak-attack come-to-Jesus thing. It was a pleasant surprise to instead see an open discussion about the state of religion.

I get people’s objections about using “hate,” but it’s semantics. Jesus didn’t like religion. The whole reason the establishment hated him was because he kept telling people they didn’t need them – that finding God was an individual pursuit.

I don’t agree with some of the things that I’ve read here, but it’s nice to see these ideas presented civilly.

Dear Author http://www.jesushatesreligion.com !
In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. I can defend the position. Write to me in PM, we will communicate.

Religion is nothing more than the manifestation of man-made systems to approach and worship and serve God, so all systems of “church” are “religion.” Are they all bad? God does not hate religion, it is the evil heart of mankind without Christ – the prideful and self-centered heart; God’s wrath is against the sinner who does not have Christ, not against institutions. “Religion” can be dangerous in that it can lead to the belief mankind can save himself, and can do God’s saving work with worldly manipulation, works and service, and ultimately missing the truth of God’s grace.

God does not hate governments, businesses, churches, or any other “institution.” The old ritualistic churches are still around, but now there are the newer circus atmosphere churches built to entertain. Are they both wrong or is one better than the other?

The “circus religion” believes it can represent the fallen heart in how it is presented to the world by absorbing the culture that is secular, sensual, and relativistic. Movies, plays, shows, crazy antics, loud music, scary Halloween houses, a circus like atmosphere, are nothing more than a system of “religion” which makes people “feel good” when they come to church to be entertained, and hopefully in the process find truth.

Even old ‘Ritualistic religion” churches with ancient rituals can be beautiful and attractive; with beautiful architecture, soothing spiritual music, powerful organs vibrating the ceilings with old hymns, a gorgeous choir singing from a lofty banister, deep voiced sermon spoken from an exquisitely carved pulpit, and everything looks and feels very religious and holy. This church may have more older people attend, but is it less or more “religious” than the previous church?

Only Christ can draw men and women to himself, through the pure preaching and teaching of the Word of God. All our worldly antics may draw a crowd – (all circuses are fun after all and the sound of the large beautiful choir moves us) – but the heart can hide from reality when it is not clearly confronted with its sin.

What’s the difference between the first “circus religion” that’s so fun verses the “ritualistic religion” that can feel like a funeral procession? From God’s perspective it must be an interesting observation – but fortunately He looks at our hearts, and that is where we begin to see the real issue here. Both churches represent “religion” in various ways – its all man-made – but does God hate both? No He does not.

“Religion” is always man-made, but we cannot have any institution to serve and worship God (ie a local church building and congregation) that does not represent “Religion” in some way – so if Jesus hates religion, then He would even hate all his called children who are saved and participate in an organized church (“religion”). So the statement “Jesus hates religion” is not only off base biblically, it misses the true mark of the issue, the behavior from an evil sinful heart that has fallen away from God has the wrath and hate of God against it, that is what He hates. But God’s love is demonstrated in Christ dying for our sinful evil hearts, so we can be redeemed! God’s love is available by faith in Christ! Religion cannot not save, only Christ can save. Religion can only make use “feel good” for a time, but if we never deal with the heart of the issue – the heart – we can be deceived by “good feeling religion” – no matter if its a circus-like or a funeral-like….

Here are a few examples of what Jesus hates, none of them is related to religion as I defined it above, but its what is in our hearts and the behavior flowing from it:

Prov 6:16-19 16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Malachi 2:16 16 “I hate divorce,” says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,” says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.

Psalm 11:5 5 The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

Praise God there is deliverance through Christ!
II Cor 5:21 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

One final note: to say Jesus hates anything in order to stimulate conversation is like someone saying Jesus would vote for Health Care if he were voting…..we cannot and should never speak for the king of king and lord of lords as if we can represent Him in any way other than what the word clearly teaches us about who he is. The bible never teaches Jesus hates religion, to believe it does is an extrapolation of truth, not a clear biblical teaching.

It’s interesting to note that scripture also says that God does not hate forever. (see Micah 7:18) and yet so many “Christians” are quick to jump on any scripture they think belittles another in some way or another.

It’s also interesting that one person on this discussion board seems to think common sense is heresy. Yet it can be equated with wisdom which talked about all through the Psalms and Proverbs (and it’s hilarious that the translation gives it feminine voice).

Oh, but here is my absolute favourite quote to share with this discussion,
how about Ecclesiates 6:7-8,
“What advantage does a wise man have over a fool?” Priceless.

Then there are those who rant on about divorce and yet its allowed in
Deuterotomy (along with remarriage). Those that rant on about this sin
and that sin and start thumping on scriptures. Well here are some scriptures already quoted to you study above, thump on those.
And then when your done getting angry about how the Lord rebukes his own with his own book, chomp on St. Matthew Chapter Seven, Verse One.

It’s perfectly natural to hate religion. Look at its history. Once bitten, twice shy. I think its even okay to hate religion because you have no real reason to like given its track record. I don’t think God is upset about this
opinion or that opinion, this movie or that movie, this book or that book, or any thing else that is really petty and trivial compared to his awesome status. Why should we as human beings be so petty?

Keep it Simple God is Good. Religion is Bad. God’s history is a bit more
understandable than mankinds history, especially religious history. And yes, by the way Jesus does hate religion…all four gospels seem to pin him against saducees, pharasees, and all those other folks he called names or came up with witty replies to from time to time. Just thought I’d point that out…I mean its in all four gospels.

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